The Grace Proclamator

and Promulgator

"To testify the gospel of the grace of God." Acts 20:24


December 1, 2002

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In this Issue:



Bouquets and Brickbats




By Elder Max Nunley

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which build his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.” Matthew 7:24-29.

I want to present to you Christian apologetics or a defense of Biblical Christianity.

We have had, during the last year, in the news media and other places, men comparing conservative Christianity with conservative Islam. Then the dangers of conservative Islam and what they were capable of doing, and then drawing a parallel with conservative Christianity. A representative from Wake Forest Baptist University declared on the news media, that conservative Christianity was dangerous, and he is not the only one to do so. Across our land it has been declared that the conservative Christian has the potential of becoming unbalanced and irrational and radical. Many have been those charges made by non-Christian and nominal Christianity against conservative Christianity.

Some have taken the Crusades and their attack against the Arabs as an indication of conservative Christianity. Others have taken the Inquisition, which is another blot upon humanity, and used it as an illustration of conservative Christianity, and the dangers which are inherent in it.

We would renounce both of these historical tragedies as being true Christianity. And we do so because in the latter case Baptist, and their earlier ancestors, were the ones who were burned at the stake and endured other cruel deeds wrought by the great whore—Roman Catholicism—and her Protestant daughters—Lutheranism and Presbyterianism and Zwinglism. I have copied the history of one man, Felix Manz, from two histories, which I will read to you:

“Luther assigned to his associate Urbanus Rhegius the task of leading the attack upon the Anabaptists. Rhegius wrote a volume in which he described Christianity of being the work of the magistrate. He wrote:

“The truth leaves you no choice; you must agree that the magistracy has the authority to coerce his subjects to the Gospel. And if you say, `Yes, but with admonition and well chosen works but not by force’ then I answer that to get people to the services with fine words and admonitions is the preacher’s duty, but to keep them there with recourse to force if need be and to frighten them away from error is the proper function of the rulers . . .

“Meanwhile the Radicals went about to organize a Church as they thought it should exist - by voluntary association. As one of their leaders, Felix Manz, put it, their ambition was ‘to bring together those who were willing to accept Christ, obey the Word, and follow in His footsteps, to unite with these by baptism, and to leave the rest in their present conviction.’ It will not escape the observant there here we have voluntaryism secured, (in the words ‘will to accept’) and coercionism precluded (by the phrase ‘leaving the rest in their present conviction’).

“This was certainly Restitutionism, without any ambiguity. For this ambition Manz was placed in a boat with his hands tied together at the wrists and passed over his knees, a heavy stick then thrust between his knees and his bent elbows. Thus bound, he was rowed to the far end of the Limmat and thrown overboard, so that he perished in the murky waters. This happened on January 5, 1527.” Verduin, Leonard The Reformers and Their Stepchildren, 1964. Grand Rapids: Eerdman’s Publishing Company, p. 74.

And Armitage said of Manz:

“Felix Manz was a noble Swiss Baptist leader, a native of Zurich. His father was a canon of the cathedral and gave him a liberal education. He was a thorough Hebrew scholar, was the firm friend of Zwingli, and had been with him from the first. He began to question the scriptural character of a State-Church and infant baptism in 1522. In a scholarly manner he endeavored to draw Zwingli to this Gospel ground, but he broke at once with Manz, who began to preach in the fields, forests and his mother’s house, translating his text from the Hebrew, and expounding his translations. For this ‘and the rebaptism of adults’ he was arrested at Church and driven from the city, but returned under the threat of the authorities to take his life. As he was from Zurich, he was shortly after sent there for punishment, and lay in prison for a long time. There he went through all sorts of disputations and sufferings, for he lived on bread and water. His release was offered if he would stop baptizing, and finally he escaped with twenty others, hoping, as one expressed it, ‘That they could safely reach the American Indians, then recently discovered, expecting more humanity from them than from the holy Swiss evangelicals.Manz argued with Zwingli on baptism and asked him to write a book on the subject, which he did with great severity, but Manz was not allowed to publish an answer.

At last the Reformed Inquisition accused him of obstinately refusing ‘to recede from his error and caprice,’ for they said that he would ‘Seek out those who wished to accept Christ and follow His word, and unite with them by baptism, but let the rest alone in their own unbelief,’ and many other things in the same line. They then chose January 5, 1527, as the black day for his judicial murder. His sentence gave him over to the executioner, who put him into a boat, bound his hands over his knees, put a block between his arms and legs, threw him into the water to drown, and then his property fell to the government. He denied before them that he opposed civil government, spoke of the love of Christ very sweetly and left one of the most pathetic letters, exhorting his brethren to a Christ-like spirit. He was led on the day of his slaughter from the Wellenburg, the heretics’ tower, through the fish-market and shambles to a boat, preaching to the people as he went. A Reformed pastor at his side sought to silence him, but his faithful brother and his old mother brushed away their tears and exhorted him to suffer firmly for Jesus’ sake. The executioner put the black cap on his head, bound him to a hurdle and threw him in Lake Zurich, as he cried, with Jesus `Into thy hands I commend my spirit!” Armitage, Thomas, A History of the Baptists, 2 volumes, 1890. Watertown: Baptist Heritage Press, 1988, vol. 1, p. 335.

Does Protestantism, does the Reformation, does this sound like conservative Christianity? We are told time and again that conservatism is dangerous. We ask the question—what is conservatism? Webster Defines conservatism as:

“The disposition to preserve or restore what is established and traditional and limit change.” Webster’s Encyclopedia Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, p. 433. That is conservatism!

Is the Church an executive body? or a legislative body? If Jesus Christ is the ultimate authority, it is an executive body. If Jesus Christ is not the ultimate authority, the Church is a legislative body. Jesus said He was the ultimate authority and the Church, therefore, is an executive body. It follows therefore, that conservative Christianity seeks to preserve and restore the teachings of Jesus Christ, the ultimate authority in Christianity. The question is—“What did Jesus teach?”

Jesus taught that men become God’s children by the new birth, not by Church membership, not by coercion, not by some religious duty, but our Lord Jesus Christ taught that men become the children of God by the new birth. And we want to observe that the new birth is an act of God and not of men. The new birth is by the wisdom and power of God. Let me give you some Scriptures this morning. In John 1:12,13 the Word of God says:

“But to as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born not of blood . . .”

We want to observe that Protestantism is wrong. Children are not Christians because their parents are Christian. They are not Christian and have the rights of Church membership and have the rights to sprinkling or pouring because their parents are saved. And they are not Christian though they may not renounce their “baptism” or “Church membership” or “Church association.” They are not born again because they are from saved parents. It is not by blood. It is not by natural procreation. It is not by the will of the flesh. Beloved, now, you know, if you “will”, God will save you. Several years ago, as a new Christian, I was out witnessing with folk and they would say to those to whom we were talking—“Now lets pray, if you will pray the sinners prayer, God will save you.” Then we would get them down on their knees and pray with them, but it did not do any good. The new birth is not by the will of the flesh. Nor is it by the will of men, BUT OF GOD!

The new birth is an act of God. Conservative Christianity is far different than the old whore and far different than Protestantism teaches today. I am not a Protestant, I am a Baptist. It was John Calvin who had Michael Servetus burned at the stake. It was one of the Torrences (they were the editors of the recent printing of Calvin’s New Testament commentaries), who are Englishmen, who wrote a defense for John Calvin, and asserted that John Calvin did not want Michael Servertus burned at the stake. That is absolutely right and the reason was not that John Calvin was not a Protestant and had the concept of Church-State religion, but the problem was, that by burning Servetus, who was a heretic . . . Michael Servetus was a heretic, a Unitarian. He was a medical doctor and an intellectual, probably as astute as was Calvin. But Calvin did not want him burned at the stake because that was indicating he was a heretic and Protestantism did not want to be associated with Roman Catholicism who burned heretics at the stake, though he did want him dead. And if you belong to a Church-State, there is no other way to deal with heretics but by death. Where Baptists can exclude members because Christianity is voluntaryism and a Church made up of believers, Protestantism, in a Church-State, must kill, and Roman Catholicism must kill, if the heretic is removed from “Church.”

The new birth is an act of God. It is an act of God’s Will:

“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” James 1:18.

The subject of the sentence is God. “Begat” is in the active voice. God did it, man did not. It is God that births the soul. I have some friends that are afraid to trust God in the new birth. So they have all manner of mental gymnastics in order to get people to make a profession. But, beloved, God is able to birth men and women; young men and young women, into His kingdom by His own wisdom and sovereignty. “Of His own will begat He us.” Man is passive and God is active. We have a participle in 1 Peter 1:23:

“Being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the word of God which liveth and abideth forever.”

As man is the subject of that long sentence, “being born again” is passive. It is man who is passive in the new birth, it is God who is active in the new birth. It is not by mental gymnastics or spiritual trauma, but it is because the living God operates upon the souls of the lost and makes them His children.

Look with me in 1 John 5:1 -

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . .”

The major verb is “is begotten.” “Believeth” is a present participle. The present participle takes place at the same time as the major verb. We are born again and then we believe! The new birth is the efficient cause not the instrumental cause . . . The new birth is the efficient cause of faith.

We are not born of God and later on believe. The present participle takes place at the same time as the major verb. No sooner are we born of God than we believe. It is simultaneous. We don’t have a regenerated unbeliever. We don’t have that! The Word of God doesn’t teach that! We don’t have an individual who is regenerate, and then six months or a year or two months or a month later believes in Jesus. It takes place simultaneously, it goes along with it, it takes place at the same time. We are regenerated and believe in Jesus. Nor do we have a lost, God hating, depraved sinner believing in Jesus from a heart that is rebellious toward Him. No, the new birth takes place and at the same time one believes in Jesus as the Christ.

The Word of God says that we are born of God. It is an act of God, and at the same time the individual is born of God he repents and trusts Jesus Christ as the only Messiah, the only Saviour. It is God who does it. So it is an act of God and not of man.

The new birth makes one a child of God! One is born “of God.” Now if one is born “of God”, then he has become the child of God. That new birth makes him a child of God. God operates directly upon his heart. His Spirit regenerates him and makes him and forms him into the image of Jesus Christ. Sometimes my daughters-in-law become peeved at my sons, I never know why (my wife understands, but I don’t). And they say “You act just like your dad.” Did that ever happen to you, brethern? The point being, though, that we do carry the characteristics of him who is our father. And in the spiritual realm, the individual who is born of God carries the imprint of his father, God, because we are sealed with His Spirit. That does not mean to be sealed as an envelop is sealed. It means to be sealed as the impress of the seal is pressed into the soft clay. We have the image of God in our hearts.

The new birth produces a desire to obey God. Would you look with me in the Gospel of John chapter eight and verse forty-seven. Jesus is talking to the religious crowd of His day, or if you will, He was talking to the secular arm of a Church-State. I realize this was a Theocracy. You will allow me a little liberty here to say that He was talking to the legal arm of the Church-State at that time, the Pharisees and scribes, and He said in John eight and verse forty-seven, they were complaining, and Jesus said to them in that verse:

“He that is of God heareth God’s words . . .”

He that is ek tou Qeou He that derives the source of his life “out from” God will hear God’s words. If the individual is born of God, if he lives in God and God lives within him, if he derives the source of his life from God, he will hear God’s words. Hear so as to do. Did you ever talk to someone and say to them as they were, seemingly, not paying attention—“Are you listening to me?” “He that is of God heareth God’s words.” They were not deaf. They were spiritually dead! They heard the words . . . the ear, the anvil, the stirrup, the hair, all worked together so as to hear. They could hear sound, but they did not hear His words. He said “Ye hear them not because ye are not of God.”

The new birth makes Christianity voluntary. The new birth makes one a child of God. The new birth makes one able to perceive what is being said and what God said. Man cannot produce the new birth. And man cannot make men the children of God. Therefore we would present that much which is labeled “Christianity” in America, as not Biblical Christianity. And conservatism does not make one unbalanced, because the new birth makes one a child of God, who then hears and listens to God’s words.

May I say to you this morning that Jesus was a conservative. Isn’t that what the Word of God says? Our text says that he that heareth these words of mine and doeth them. He said “It hath been said” thus and thus all through the Sermon on the Mount, “but I say unto you.” Is He not seeking to restore the truth? Is He not opposed to change?

But Jesus said His words would secure men in this life and the life to come. He said—If you hear my words and do them you are going to be secure. The problems of life, the difficulties, the pressures, all that confront you, are not any different than any one else. On both houses the same thing took place, but the individual who was founded upon the rock stood, and the individual who was founded upon the sand fell. Our Lord says, then, that the conservative truth, or the truth of Christianity is conservative. And we have the truth of providence—God is working in your life and mine. Folks say “I wish I knew what God’s will for me is. I wish I could find God’s will.” I’ll tell you we are in God’s will when we keep His word, are we not? Do we have to search for it? Is God withdrawn and so far away that we have to search for it, or is God so near in providence that He is working all the time in our lives. And to those who are born again, God is operative all the time. There does not need to be some cataclysmic lightening bolt or whatever. Several years ago a fellow told a friend of mine that he knew God called him to preach, because he fell off the roof of his house and was stunned. As he was coming to himself he saw written in the clouds “Go Preach.’ He saw that in the clouds, and my friend said, my friend said “you were just addled, it really said “Go pick cotton.”

We don’t need any cataclysm. God’s people ought to operate, and God’s people will live their lives under the will of God and live their lives in obedience to the Word of God, and to the God of the Word.

Providence is operating all of the time. Not only does this word suggest that God’s people are going to overcome but God’s people are going to go through judgment and they are going to receive the blessings of the Lord, because our Lord is the final judge. “He that hears my words and does them is like a man who built his house upon a rock.” We live this life and we have the same pressures and problems as the lost or others. But we stand because of the words of Christ. And we are going to come off victorious in the future as a child of God. We are going to be rewarded in the future with the blessings of the Lord because He, as the final authority, has said it.

God is immutable is he not? Malachi chapter three and verse sixteen says: “I am the LORD, I change not.”

Hebrews chapter thirteen and verse eight says: “Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever.” As our text was true in the first century and He said that then and He means the same today, because it is a revelation of the immutable God. He made the statement Himself and it is still good today. Conservatism is important! Conservatism does not make one unbalanced. We are not going to overthrow the government, or do some dastardly deed.

Lets move on and I will conclude. What our Lord taught was—not only does the new birth make one a child of God, not only did He teach conservatism, but He taught His children to be long-suffering and kind to all.

I have a Koran. I know what it says. When it says “kill the infidel” it said it. It meant it! All these little do-gooders who arise publicly and announce that that is conservative Islam, are lying. The only reason they do not do that in the United States of America is: they are not in power. Can you tell me the most oppressive government in the world? Can you name that most oppressive government? You would perhaps say China, or Russia or North Korea. But the most oppressive government in the world today is Saudi Arabia—Islam full blown! That is not Christianity. To all his children, Jesus gave God’s actions as an example. Look with me in Matthew chapter five. This is the same sermon from which our text was taken. I am not going to read that. I have just a few minutes. I will just mention that. It is the Beatitudes. Notice at the close of the Beatitudes in vv. 10-12.

“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

That is what conservatism teaches. That is not what Roman Catholicism taught. That is not what Protestantism taught. That is not what Islam teaches. That isn’t what liberalism teaches. But that is what conservative Christianity teaches. We want to get back to that. Matthew chapter five and verses thirty-eight through forty-eight:

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mite, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethern only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

This is conservative Christianity!

Jesus Himself put God’s Will and God’s Word to actions:

“I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession.” 1 Timothy 6: 13.

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again, when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.” 1 Peter 2:21-23.

The Apostolic admonitions are in Romans chapter fourteen and verses nine through twenty-one.

That is conservative Christianity. It is not the facade held by the majority of the world. It is not the facade held by the majority of religion. But it is conservative Christianity.

Also we want to say in closing that exclusion is not execution. Exclusion is not execution. Roman Catholicism, because of their concept of a Church-State must execute in order for the “heretic” to be taken out of the “Church.” Ancient Protestantism, because of their concept of a Church-State executed the “heretic” in order for the “heretic” to be taken out of the “Church.” Islam, because of their concept of a Church-State, hates all who are not Islam and executes the “infidel” in order to remove them from the Church-State. Do those who believe that one is made a child of God by the new birth love those whom they discipline? Yes! We exclude them that they will see the gravity of their situation and come to repentance and follow the Word of God. Because the Church is made up of believers, the Church can exclude its rebellious members and leave them alive in the world but not as members in the Church.


Being a Conservative Christian does not mean unbalanced, an ignorant red-neck, nor an unthinking buffoon. It means poise, self-control, loving one’s enemy and loving the truth. As real Conservative Christianity means following Jesus and as He is IMMUTABLE, all Christianity ought to be conservative. It is the denial of God’s Word and the denial of Christ as the ultimate authority that gets men in trouble and perverts Christianity.



Prepared by Dr. Wayne Camp as a Friend of the Court

[Editor’s Note: Five or six years ago I was asked to prepare the following material as a friend of the court in a trial concerning some church problems in another state.]

Baptist churches, throughout their long and perpetual history, have held that their only rule of faith and practice is the 66 books that compose what is called the Bible. They have often expressed their fundamental doctrines in what are called Confessions of Faith. While Baptists hold the Bible as the only rule of faith and practice, they will often appeal to their confessions of faith as the declaration of what they understand the fundamentals of their faith to be. I believe that Pastor C. D. has listed the major confessions of faith of Baptists in the United States, therefore I will not repeat them but will simply affirm that I am familiar with the list he has presented and that these are the major confessions of Baptists in the United States.

Briefly, my qualifications to serve in this capacity:

I began preaching when I was 19 years of age and have preached for 42 years and pastored Baptist churches for 40 years.

I graduated from the Missionary Baptist Seminary in Little Rock, AR, with a Bachelor in Bible Languages degree. I continued there in post-graduate work receiving both a Masters and Doctors degrees in Bible Languages. These particular degrees were unique with this school.

During the last two years in Seminary, I also did substitute teaching for different faculty members.

After finishing there I moved to Illinois to pastor and led in establishing the Illinois Missionary Baptist Institute Seminary where I served as President and faculty member for 13 ½ years. During four years of that time I taught Baptist Church History.

I served several years as Editor of the Illinois Missionary Baptist News, a paper published by the Illinois State Baptist Association. In addition to pastoral work, I have served as Editor of The Grace Proclamator and Promulgator since February of 1985.

In my forty years as a Baptist pastor, I have had the added privilege and honor of preaching in churches all across the U. S. in special services and in Bible Conferences.

In this paper, I am especially addressing the question of “how many baptized believers are necessary to compose or continue a Baptist church?” Baptists vary in the way they organize churches but most, if not all, are agreed on the minimum needed to constitute or perpetuate a Baptist Church. We find that minimum set forth in Scripture. Matthew 18:17-20 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That Jesus is speaking of a local church in this passage there can be no doubt. He speaks of church discipline and in one verse and says, “Tell it to the church.” In verse 20, he sets forth the minimum number of persons that can constitute and maintain a church—two or three.

In some Baptist Church Manuals and other such books, the exact number of persons essential is not mentioned, though the passage above is sometimes cited inferring two are three are all that are essential for a church to exist.

Dr. Benjamin Marcus Bogard was considered a pillar of Baptist orthodoxy in his day. Among Dr. Bogard's writings was a book called The Baptist Way-book. In that he wrote concerning the minimum number necessary to compose a church. The first step necessary in the organization of a new congregation or church is for as many as three baptized disciples to agree to meet statedly for worship, for mutual edification and united effort for the evangelization of the world (The Baptist Way-book, Page 69, Baptist Sunday School Committee, 1945).

Another Baptist Author whose church manual has been widely used was J. E. Cobb. Discussing ways to constitute churches he gave the following as one way, “Missionaries may work in pairs, or even three or more in number. Counting their wives, they can constitute themselves into a church after receiving letters. They may then receive the new converts into the newly organized church” (Baptist Church Manual, Third Edition, 1941 First Edition, P. 36). Cobb indicates that no more than two to four are necessary to establish a church.

Dr. John Gill was one of the greatest scholars to ever wear the name Baptist. Gill’s Expositor is doubtless one of the greatest, most extensive commentaries on the entire Bible that has ever been written. Commenting on Mat. 18:20 cited above, Gill wrote, For where two or three are gathered together, &c.] This seems to be said in opposition to a Jewish notion, that a number less than ten, is not a congregation {a}; whereas, though the number is ever so few that are met together to pray to God; or to hear his word, attend on his ordinances, or do the business of his house, or transact any affair that is for the glory of God, and the good of souls, in my name, says Christ; that is, by his authority, depending on his assistance, calling upon his name, and making use of it, and seeking the glory of it.”

It is evident from this statement that Gill held no doubt that the smallest number that could assemble (two) could compose a church.

Even commentators who are not Baptists have affirmed that two or three can make up an assembly or church of Christ. Matthew Henry was such. He wrote on Mat. 18:20, The presence of Christ in the assemblies of Christians, v. 20. Every believer has the presence of Christ with him; but the promise here refers to the meetings where two or three are gathered in his name, not only for discipline, but for religious worship, or any act of Christian communion. Assemblies of Christians for holy purposes are hereby appointed, directed, and encouraged.

Thus, it is evident that every one of the writers cited held that two or three can constitute, compose and perpetuate a church.


Bouquets and Brickbats

NEW MEXICO: I enjoyed reading the article "Why Don't You Just Leave and Leave Us Alone."  I had the very same thoughts as you expressed back when I read the original article in BBB by CAP. 

I pray that God will bless you, and your labors in Thailand.  Considering all things involved,  you are truly a missionary in the example of Paul.  

WWW: Your website about why you don’t celebrate Christmas was a very informative one. It is my first time in my life I've heard that the believer of Christ do NOT celebrate Christmas, and with strong reasoning and logic too.

I am a Muslim. However, I support your cause and stand in this. Some of us are being led by humans, and not by divinity. I hope God show them the way.

MICHIGAN: We want to thank you first of all for sending us The Grace Proclamator And Promulgator. It’s nice to get news from you.

OHIO: I am trying to find a sound Baptist Church in or around Mentor or close to Cleveland Ohio. If you know of one would you please let me know?

EDITOR’S NOTE: Could any of our readers help me with this brother’s inquiry?

TEXAS: Have enjoyed your paper for many years but now must move on to other things. Time has a way of limiting our choices. Thanks for the good works and God bless. Please remove me from your mailing list.

WWW: Good morning: I am interested to know what is meant by the title, or how you define, a "Sovereign Grace Church"? I certainly understand the grace of God; once a lost, dead-in-sin Roman Catholic, now a saved son of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Also, since you are located in Memphis, do you happen to know a gentleman by the name of Ken Lansing? He preaches out on Beale street in Memphis, and I just wondered if you knew him, or knew of him.

EDITOR’S RESPONSE: By Sovereign Grace we mean that we believe that God is sovereign in the bestowal of his grace and favor. He is obligate to no one and owes no one an opportunity to be saved. We mean that he is gracious to whom he will be gracious and merciful to whom he will be merciful and whom he will he hardens. Romans 9:15-16 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

By Sovereign Grace we mean that election is wholly of grace and God is the God of all grace. Romans 11:4-6 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Election is unto salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. Since election is of God’s grace then it could not be based on anything seen or foreseen in man such as foreseen faith. Romans 9:11-13 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

By Sovereign Grace we mean that in God’s purpose he has made some vessels of mercy and others vessels of wrath. Romans 9:20-23 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

By Sovereign grace we mean that we believe God has ordained some to eternal life and that these, in the time of God’s purpose will believe. Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

We also believe that some mean have been ordained to condemnation. Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

These are some of the reasons we call ourselves Sovereign Grace Baptists. If I may be of further assistance feel free to write.

USA: Thank you for sending me the Grace Proclamator over the years.  Nevertheless, I need to ask you to remove me from your mailing list and end my subscription.  No problems here . . . just simplifying my life presently because of new responsibilities, and I don't have the time to read that I once had. Thanks for your faithfulness to the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

INDIA: Thank God. God has enlighten me through your preaching.  You are blessed. You have made God happy.  Keep praising God every minute of every day!

WWW: You obviously need to be informed Jesus and Allah are completely two different Gods. Jesus Christ is the promised messiah that God promised us in the Old Testament. Allah is a “prophet” that died and is not the true living and gracious God that we serve today …you might need to check your sources! Love in Christ.

EDITOR’S RESPONSE: I have read your letter several times and cannot figure out the import of it. I preach that Jesus is God and is the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. I think you are misinformed about Allah, the god of the Muslim. They do not teach that Allah was a prophet but that he is their god. Mohammed was the prophet (false prophet) who died.

OKLAHOMA: I just wanted to drop you a note to let you know how much I appreciate your paper, The Grace Proclamator and Promulgator.

Your article on the subject of preaching (Sept. issue) was right on the money, a much needed article, that not only needs to be published but also practiced.

I appreciate your stand on the truths of the Word of God. I pray that God will mightily bless your ministry in Thailand.

WWW: I just happened upon your web site regarding PK.  In it you reference things about the Catholic faith.  There are some gross errors in your understanding of the Catholic faith.  If what you are proclaiming was true, you would be right in complaining about it.  But you have clearly been taught erroneous things about the Catholic faith.  I would urge you to continue reading, go to some reliable sources about what the Catholic church really teaches, and then make an analysis based off of that.   (Try the most recent printing of The Catechism of the Catholic Church.)  Please do not rely on what others say the Catholic church teaches.  Go directly to the valid writings of the Catholic church!  E.g., the Catholic church does not worship Mary!   Never has, never will.



A Study of the Five Points of Arminianism


By Wayne Camp

Universal Redemption or

General Atonement


The Arminians believe that Christ's death made it possible for everyone to be saved but assured the salvation of no one. They believe that Christ's death made it possible for God to pardon sin but it did not actually put away the sins of anyone. Christ is not really the Redeemer; He is the redeemer if and when the sinner chooses to let him redeem. He did not make an atonement that really atones; He only made atonement possible if the sinners choose to let him be an atonement.

Does the Bible teach an atonement that really atoned? Does the Bible speak of a redemption that really redeemed? If it does, the Arminian position is proven to be wrong.


Did Jesus Really Save His People? "Thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). Notice that the angel did not say: "He shall make possible the salvation of his people." Nor did he say: "He shall try to save his people." He plainly declared: "He SHALL SAVE his people from their sins."

Did Jesus Lay Down His Life For And Will He Save His Sheep? "I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice" (Jn. 10:15-16). Jesus makes it very clear that his death was on behalf of His sheep and that those sheep would hear His voice.

Did Jesus Really Make Satisfaction For His Seed? "When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. . . He shall see the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied” (Isa. 53:10-11).

When Jesus was suspended upon the cross God saw two things—he saw Christ's seed and the travail of His soul on their behalf. He was satisfied and atonement was accomplished. On the basis of this accomplished atonement Paul was able to speak of the certainty of salvation of all the seed. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed" (Rom. 4:16). Paul further points out that these seed include Jews and Gentiles.

From these verses we learn:

1. That God saw Christ’s seed.

2. That Christ satisfied the demands of Divine justice and holiness on behalf of the seed.

3. That the promise of salvation by grace through faith is sure to all the seed.

The Arminian would have us believe that God saw the entire human race and was satisfied on behalf of all of them. Yet, he would want us to also believe that the promise is not sure to any of them. He, moreover, wants us to believe that the vast majority of those for whom Christ satisfied God's wrath will still endure that wrath. He would have us believe that God would twice demand payment for the sins of all those who do not believe—once by Christ and once by the unbeliever.

Did Christ Come To Give Eternal Life To All Men Or To Those Whom The Father Had Given Him? The Arminian would have us believe that Christ came to try to give eternal life to every last person in the human race. If their position is true then Christ is failing in His purpose. Does the Lord Omnipotent try many things at which he fails? The Arminian advocates such by his affirmation of universal redemption and general atonement.

Jesus affirmed that he came to give eternal life to a specific group of individuals. He often spoke of those whom the Father had given Him.

1. They will all come to him and none will be lost. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day" (Jn. 6:37, 39).

2. He came to give them eternal life. "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him" (Jn. 17:2).

3. He prayed for them. "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we area While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled" (Jn. 17:9-12). Did Jesus refuse to pray for many for whom he died and made an atonement?

4. He desired that these be with Him in glory. "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou has given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world" (Jn. 17:24).

5. These are also known as His sheep. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one" (Jn. 10:27-30).

It is evident from these verses that an innumerable multitude had been given to Christ, that Christ was given the power to give all of those given to Him eternal life, and that all those given to Him by the Father would come to Him and none of them would be lost.

The reader is especially asked to again consider the statement of Jesus Himself as recorded in John 17:2. Jesus says that The Father had given "him power over all flesh, (Now, note the clause of purpose which tells why He was given that power) "that He should give eternal life to AS MANY as thou hast given him."

Atonement includes all the benefits of Christ's death in reconciliation, propitiation, remission, etc.

It should be pointed out that the Arminian limits the atonement as surely as others do. The Arminian limits the POWER of the atonement for he says that it actually secures the salvation of no one. The Arminian limits the QUALITY of the atonement by teaching that it only makes possible the salvation of all but assures the salvation of none. The atonement taught by the Arminian is like a wide bridge that reaches only half-way across a river. The sinner must manage to span the other half. The Bible teaches an atonement that is infinitely unlimited in its value, quality, and power but is limited in its purpose and in its application to the elect.


In our study of the five points of Arminianism we come to study their position on the Divine call to salvation. It is the contention of those who hold this position that God calls all men to salvation with the same power and intensity. The difference in those who are saved and those who are lost rests with the will of the called, not in the ability and power of the caller and his call.

The Arminian argues that the Sovereignty of God in the calling to salvation whom he would must be deferred to the sovereignty of the human will to accept or reject the call. In fact, one Baptist preacher in a message before a great number of Baptists made this statement: “God in his amazing grace, calls all men to the point that they can either accept or reject Jesus Christ.” He then leaves it to the sinner’s depraved will to decide to trust or reject Jesus Christ, he claimed.

This editor once asked one literature writer for his interpretation of Romans 8:30, especially the statement “whom he called, them he also justified” He replied (I still have his letter): “Whom he called and all who answered the call, ‘yes,’ them he justified.” Those who answered the call with a negative answer were not justified, of course. Any who read that passage know that this is a perversion and addition to what it really says and means.

The Arminian believes that no matter how intensely God may call one to repentance and faith, this call is resistible by the sinner. Regardless of the call and its power, regardless of the caller, and his almighty power, the ultimate result is entirely dependent on the will of the man. He, man, must take the first step. “The sinner is called upon to ‘reach out to Jesus, he is reaching out to you.” The sinner is urged to “get saved” or to “get ‘borned’ again.” Tracts are published on “The Steps to The New Birth.”




God willing, by the time you read this or shortly thereafter, those of us pictured below, Bro. Bill Lee, Sis. Janice Lee, and Bro. Wayne Camp) will be on our way to Chiang Mai, Thailand, on another exciting missionary trip. This one holds some very special prospects for us and the work. We will depart from Memphis International Airport on October 28, 2002 and will arrive in Chiang Mai on October 30 at 3:25 PM (2:25 AM CST).

There are to be two highlights of this mission trip. In addition to visiting some of the newer churches, we will have the grand opening of the new Sovereign Grace Independent Baptist Children's’ Center that is located on 17 acres of land near Chiang Mai. We have pictured the new dining halls and the new boys’ and girls’ houses in recent issues.

We are happy to announce that the land is now completely paid for as are the buildings, water well and tanks, and the bringing in of the electrical service.

We did have some vandalism at the center recently. Someone destroyed the first well we drilled and stole the water pump. Another is being drilled as I write this (11:22 PM, 10/20/02) and should be in operation by the time you are reading about it.

The second highlight of this trip will be the grand opening of The Sovereign Grace Independent Baptist School of Theology. This is not a separate work but is a new aspect of the Thailand Mission work.

Our first focus is the carrying of the gospel to the Hill Tribes in the jungles of Thailand. This is mainly being done under the leadership of Missionary Anond Phoothaptim who is sent to the work through the Pa Sak church.

In recent months we have been focusing on the Children’s center because we wanted to get away from renting a place for the children. This has led to their being moved two or three times. Now they will be able to remain in this one place since land and buildings belong to our people in Thailand.

Now the focus will be on getting The Sovereign Grace Independent Baptist School of Theology in operation.

As mentioned earlier, we will arrive on October 30 in the afternoon. We will visit the Children’s center on Thursday and the remainder of the week we will visit some of the churches. The week of November 5-8, in connection with the grand opening of the Children’s center and the School, we will have a Bible Conference. The Lees will return to the states on November 12 but I (Wayne Camp) will remain in Thailand and the afternoon of November 12, we will have registration and orientation for the students. At 9:00 AM on November 13, 2002, the full schedule of classes will get under way at The Sovereign Grace Independent Baptist School of Theology in Thailand.

We would like to express our sincere appreciation to all who have made these to landmark events—the opening of the new Children’s Center and the opening of the Bible School—a reality. Without the support of a number of churches and individuals, this would not be. We feel that more fruitful days are ahead for this Thailand Mission work. With the Children’s center open and nearly complete, and with the Bible School underway, we can teach the pastors and young preachers the word of God and we can focus on the further spread of the gospel through the jungle villages of Thailand and Burma.

I ask again that all of our praying churches and individual Christians keep this entire work in your prayers. Pray for Pilgrims Hope Baptist Church and my dear wife while I am away. Pray that God will use this school to further the preaching of the gospel in Thailand. Pray for the students as they leave their villages each week and come to the center to study the word of God. Pray for their families while they are away. “Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you.”


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This page was last updated Friday, March 04, 2011